Saturday, January 23, 2010

Was Jesus nailed on a cross or a stake?

I think a cross.Was Jesus nailed on a cross or a stake?
A cross.Was Jesus nailed on a cross or a stake?
Nailed on a cross. That was staked into the ground to keep it upright.
neither


it was behind the stable


shhh..
A tree
Well the Bible states that He was nailed to the cross. Also the Bilbe states that He had to carry the cross through the village to the hill where He and the others were put up.
Well the romans favoured sticking people on crosses although they weren't just nailed but more likely tied. Not enough flesh on hands to hold a body up by nails alone. Eventually they suffocated from the weight of their bodies just hanging there.





Nice eh! I guess if they were short of wood at the time it could have been a stake but traditionally it was a cross.
A cross
it's called a crucifix, and it's a +. That is historically accurate, which is rare in the Bible, and people did die. No one staked people because they're not vampires, and it's a hassle to clean up.
It was a cross. Only Jehovah's Witnesses translate ';cross'; as ';torture stake,'; despite the original Greek.





Check out the first link below for some links that examine the medical aspects of crucifixion. Pretty interesting stuff.
actually they left out the word 'hammock'; when they translated the bible--you know, like priests should celebrate!
The Roman executed many people on the cross, trouble makers run away slaves. Putting nails in the hands and feet was uncommon but not unheard of. Since Jesus was executed under the order of the Romans, it makes sense that he was killed on the cross.
He was nailed, through the wrists (considered part of the hand) to a cross.
cross , stake, tree.. all the same.. since all came from a tree (basically wood)..


why tree.. ??because our sin came from a tree (tree of knowledge of good and evil), so it must end on a tree too....
This is a discussion between a muslim scholar and a famous american clerick :





M = Mr Ahmed Deedat


C = Jimmy Swaggart








M. The Holy Qur’an states in Surah 4:v157 that Jesus was not crucified: “And their (Jews) boasting: ‘we killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah,’ but they (Jews) killed him


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not, nor crucified him.” Do you still believe that he died on the cross?


C. Yes, Christians believe he died and was then resurrected.


M. It is recorded in the Bible that nobody saw the moment he was resurrected. They found the sepulchre empty where Jesus was laid down and made the conclusion that he was resurrected because the disciples and other witnesses saw him alive after the alleged crucifixion. Could it not be possible, as the Qu’ran claims that he didn’t die on the cross?


C. Where is the proof then?


M. Let us see passages in the Bible supporting this evidence. Do you give more weight to what Jesus said or to hearsay of the disciples, apostles and other witnesses?


C. Of course more to what Jesus said!


M. That is in accordance with what Jesus said in (Matthew 10:24) “The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.”


C. But Jesus himself said that he would rise from the dead (Luke 24:46) and said unto them, “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.”


M. Suffering is often exaggerated in the Bible and termed “dead” as Paul said (I Corinthians 15:31): “I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ, I die daily” (i.e. I suffer daily). Here are some of the proofs from the Bible:


1. On the cross Jesus beseeched God for help (Matthew 27:46) “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” And in


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Luke 22:42: Saying: “Father if thou be willing, remove this cup from me, nevertheless not my will but Thine be done.” (This cup is the cup of death.)


2. Jesus’s prayer not to die on the cross was accepted by God, according to Luke, Hebrews and James. Then how could he still die on the cross? (Luke 22:43): “And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.” (Hebrews 5:7): “Who in the days of his flesh, when he, Jesus had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save him from death, and was “heard” in that he feared.” It means that an angel assured him that God would not let him die. The word “heard” whenever it occurs in the Bible means that the prayer was accepted.


Jesus’s prayers were “heard,” meaning that it was answered in a positive way by God WHO SAVED HIM FROM DEATH. (James 5:16): “... The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” Jesus himself said in (Matthew 7:7.10) “Ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for every one that asketh receiveth, and he that seeketh, findeth, and to him who knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?” Question: If God, according to Jesus, definitely accepts and answers a righteous man’s prayer, then surely Jesus’s prayers were also answered, including the one not to die on the cross. Was he not a chosen one of God? How could his prayer be rejected, and he still had to die on the cross after he prayed for safety and was informed that his prayer was “heard”? It does not make sense. Look to the example Jesus (pbuh) uses. If a son


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asks a father for bread will he give him a stone? Definitely not! So it is illogical to believe that God did not answer his prayer for being saved when we all know that he was innocent and was “heard.”


1. His legs were not broken by the Roman soldiers (John 19:32-33) “Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs,” Can you rely on these soldiers for pronouncing him dead?


C. I cannot say.


M. Is it not probable that they wanted to save Jesus as they found him innocent? Even Pilate said he did not want the blood of an innocent man on his hands and he took a bowl of water and washed his hands symbolically off “this innocent man’s blood” before the blood thirsty Jews.


4. If Jesus had died on the cross, his blood would clot and no blood would come out of his body when his side was pierced. Ask any medical doctor of this. The Gospel states clearly that blood and water came out; (John 19:34) “But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.” So medically and scientifically it is proved that he was alive even according to John.


5. When the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign to prove that he was a true messenger of God he answered: “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (Matthew 12:40). Disregard now the time factor,


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which were also not three days and three nights but one day (Saturday, daytime only) and two nights (Friday night and Saturday night). The important criteria of the sign are: AS JONAH WAS! Jonah was alive in the belly of the whale, and in the same way Jesus was ALIVE in the belly of the earth.


M. Do you agree that Jonas was still alive when he was vomited out of the belly of the whale?


C. Yes! It says so in the Bible.


M. So the sign was fulfilled of him being alive as he prophesied.


Jesus himself stated that he did not die on the cross. Early Sunday morning Mary Magdalene went to the sepulchre, which was empty. She saw somebody standing who looked like a gardener. She recognized him after a conversation to be Jesus and wanted to touch him. Jesus said (John 20:17): “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father... “Touch me not,” perhaps because the fresh wounds would hurt him. “I am not yet ascended to my Father,” means that he was not dead but still alive. If anybody dies, then he only ascends to GOD. This was the strongest proof admitted by Jesus himself. After the alleged crucifixion the disciples thought that he was not the same Jesus in body but spiritualized, because resurrected bodies are spiritualized.


C. Interruption. How could you be sure that resurrected bodies are spiritualized?


M. That is what Jesus himself said in the Bible: that they are equal to angels.


C. Where about in the Bible?


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M. In Luke 20:34-36: “And answering said unto them, the children of the world marry, and are given in marriage. But they, which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and then resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”


Then Jesus convinced them by letting them touch his hands and feet, that he was the same person. When they did not believe him, he asked for meat to eat to prove to them that he still ate like any living individual. Read Luke 24:36-41: “And as they (the disciples) thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, “Peace be unto you”. (Exactly as a Muslim greets) But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, “Why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself, handle me and see, for a spirit hath no flesh and bones as ye see me have.” And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, “Have ye here any meat?” And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of a honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Living people eat food, not dead people or resurrected ones, as Jesus stated in Luke. If you still believe that he died on the cross, then he was a false Prophet and accursed of God according to Deuteronomy 13:5: “And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death”.


(Deuteronomy 21:22-23): “And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou


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shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God) that thy land be not defiled which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”


To believe in his death on the cross is to discredit his prophethood. The Jews maintained to have killed Jesus on the cross and consequently portrayed him to be false in his claim to prophethood. The Church has imposed the doctrine of crucifixion on the Christians because of Paul, and says it is necessary for their redemption of sin, and consequently has to accept the accursedness of Jesus, too. But as stated before by Jesus: “The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, and neither the father shall bear the inequity of the son”; and said further “that they worship him uselessly believing the false doctrines made by men.”


This doctrine opposes the Bible’s teaching in Hosea 6:v6: “For I desired mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt-offerings.” It also opposes Jesus’ own teaching (Matthew 9:13) “But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice...” Again Jesus said (Matthew 12:7) “But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not, have condemned the guiltless.” Can you see? Jesus said twice that he would have “mercy” from God. The Church’s Doctrine or teaching is condemning Jesus, an innocent prophet to an accursed death on Paul’s words without any proof whatsoever. Surely Christians believe that Jesus was guiltless, was he not? Use your intelligence to ponder on the words of Jesus (pbuh).


C. Of course Jesus was guiltless! But why does the Church force us to believe in the resurrection then?


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M. It was Paul who taught the resurrection (Acts 17:18): “... And some (Jews) said, what will this babbler say? Others said he (Paul) seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods, because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.” Paul, who never saw or even met Jesus, also admitted that the resur-rection was his gospel (II Timothy 2:8) “Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.” He was also the first who declared Jesus as Son of God (Acts 9:20): “And straightway he (Paul) preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the son of God.” Read the words carefully. The Jews called Paul a “babbler”, meaning a mentally sick person. Also he was setting forth “strange Gods”. The Jews worshiped only One God and that is why they called Paul a “babbler” and threw him out of the synagogues for teaching the concept of “son of god” which they knew was blasphemy. So trinity in Christianity is not a teaching of Jesus, but of Paul. The so-called Christians are following Paul and not Jesus.


C. But Mark (16:19) mentioned that Jesus was raised up to heaven and sat on the right hand of God: “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”


M. As I told you under the discussion of the Holy Bible that Mark 16, verses 9-20, were expunged in certain Bibles. See remark in the Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible and the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Church. If you still believe that Jesus is divine because he was raised up to heaven, why don’t you accept other Prophets as divine who were also raised up to heaven?


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C. I am not aware of others. Who were they?


M. Elijah (II Kings 2:11-12) “... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried ... And he saw him no more.” Also God took Enoch to heaven (Genesis 5:24) “And Enoch walked with God, and he was not; for God took him.” This is also repeated in Hebrews 11:5. “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death and was not found, because God translated him; for before his translation he had this testimony that he pleased God.”
Jesus was nailed to a cross

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